Tuesday, September 19, 2006

Henry IV, Act III, scene 1, lines 198-276 and scene 2

Please post your comments for Scene 1, lines 198-276, and Scene 2 of Act 3 of Henry IV, Part 1 here. (See instructions under the post for Scene 1, lines 1-197.)

21 Comments:

Blogger haley said...

Scene ii, #4
I really liked the imagery created by King Henry IV when he was talking about King Richard II. He says, "More than a little is by much too much./So when he had occasion to be seen/He was but as the cuckoo is in June/heard, not regarded; seen, but with such eyes/as, sick and blunted with community/afford no extraordinary gaze/such as is bent on sun-like majesty/when it shines seldom in admiring eyes;/but rather drowzed and hung their eyelids down/slept in his face and render'd such aspect/as cloudy men use to their adversaries/being with his presence glutted, gorged and full." He uses the sun and cloud imagery, and says that when the king appears, it should be rare and majestic, like when the rare sun emerges from the clouds. He says King Richard made himself too easily available to the commoners, and therefore made them sleepy and "gorged" by him. I like the comparison of King Richard to the cuckoo bird that appears so much in June, that no one really cares about it any more, because it is not rare.

8:26 AM  
Blogger The Katie S. said...

6. King Henry and Hal have a rather tedious relationship with a great deal of formality and structure. Both appear to have a set belief as to why the other places himself in their life beyond the role of father or son. At the very beginning of scene 2, for example, Henry IV proclaims to his son, "I know not whether God will have it so/ For some displeasing service I have done,/ That, in His secret doom, out of my blood/ He'll breed revengement and a scourge for me" (3.2.5-8). If nothing else, what the king says sounds extremely cold. To tell your son that God has sent him as a punishment? How the King addresses Hal appears more like how a king might remark to a worthless lackey or, if you will, an animated criminal mastermind who hs failed yet again due to their workers' incompetence and informs them of just how worthless they are. On the other hand, Hal responds to Henry with as much formality as his father who truly seems to stand on a high precipice to which Hal must look for pardon. I suppose this matches the idea of Divine Right, but shouldn't the divine one's son sit close to him? All Hal says to his father's accusations is: "...I would I could/ Quit all offenses with as clear excuse/ As well as I am doubtless I can purge/ Myself of many I am charged withal....By smiling pickthanks and base newsmongers,/ I may for some things true, wherein my youth/ Hath faulty wandered and irregular,/ Find pardon on my true submission" (3.2.20-30). Hal submits to his father, but does he really respect him? Both make excuses for why conversing is difficult between the two of them and attempt only to further themselves in what they want of the other. After all, in the end, Hal must attend to war and the King finally sees some, hopefully, approved action in his son. To sum up my lengthy jabbering, Hal and King Henry don't really have a relationship of father and son. One sees the other as punishment and a trial in his life while the other, views him as a higher ranking officer to whom he must submit but not love. Tragedy flits through the relationships in royalty like not other place.

8:54 AM  
Blogger Jesse! said...

Sorry, I really had two things to say:
6. I found the constant teasing between Hotspur and Lady Kate amusing, it reminded me of Hamlet and Ophelia’s conversations, with sharp innuendo and quick, short exchanges. Hotspur again reveals little respect for women, and his conversations with Kate tend to be indirect. Unlike the previous Act, this part presents a new facet to their relationship. They are definitely more playful to each other but never honest.I noticed that the women in this scene (with the singing as well) act as entertainment, they only appear after the battle plans because they are not important to the plot and traditionally they don’t belong in war.
4. In scene 2, there was a memorable quote said by Prince Hal: “I will redeem all this on Percy’s head,/And in the closing of some glorious day,/Be bold to tell you that I am your son,/ When I will wear a garment of all blood/And stain my favors in a bloody mask.” (137-141) In most Shakespearean plays, the turning point occurs in Act 3 and I believe that this quote turns the tide of both the plot and the character. Hal is emerging from an ignorant youth to a young man who will take his stand in battle. I love the use of the blood imagery as he will completely emerge himself into danger and death which is highly unlike the safe vizards with the Pub Crawler. Finally, the king is able to change Hal and Hal promises that he will outshine his true role as the king’s son as the “sun” breaks through clouds.

1:27 PM  
Blogger julie s said...

6. More is learned about the relationship between Hotspur and Kate at the end of scene one.

"Come, Kate, thou art perfect in lying down. Come, quick, quick, that I may lay my head in thy lap," (lines 222-223). This is the first thing that Hotspur says to his wife, and it's something quite vulgar (he's playing on the dual meaning of 'head' and 'lap,' as they could be used in a sexual context as well back in Shakespeare's day). At first I found this a bit shocking. I knew that Hotspur didn't exactly speak to Kate in a respectful manner, but it surprised me that he would be so openly vulgar with her, especially since there were other characters present too. But, Kate responds, "Go, you giddy goose," (line 224), which translates to, "you silly goose." Maybe the term "silly goose" held a different meaning during the time of the Henriad, but to me that indicates that Kate might have taken Hotspur's comment in a more playful manner and not just in an offensive way.

Hotspur continues to make vulgar comments, even saying he would go, "To the Welsh lady's bed," (line 237). Still Kate doesn't show outright anger. This leads me to believe, if only a little bit, that Hotspur does love Kate, even though, in most of our opinions, he treats her pretty terribly. Though, he does get quite angry at her for cursing. He definitely overreacts over that.

I'm very interested in seeing how this relationhip plays out. My heart wants to write Hotspur off as a terrible womanizer, but my mind is still open.

1:57 PM  
Blogger Emma V said...

6)Act 3 scene 2 was the first time that we see King Henry and Hal interact with eachother. The relationship between the two is nothing like father in son. Rather, King Henry treats Hal like an employee and Hal treats him as a his boss who he must serve. In act 1 scene 2, Prince Hal reveals his plan to make a great entrance as king after associating with the Pub Crawlers. From Hal’s soliloquy I felt that Hal was more interested in emerging from his fathers shadow rather than actually being a King. From Hal’s promise to his father in this scene, Hal reveals a new, responsible, side of himself. This new Hal is devoted to his country as well as his own honor. Hal plans to redeem himself in his fathers eyes and proclaims, “God forgive them that so much have swayed your Majesty’s good thoughts away from me. I will redeem all this on Percy’s head, and, in the closing of some glorious day, be bold to tell you that I am your son.” (3.2.135-139)

6:24 PM  
Blogger Betsy H said...

6. Scene 2 is a very interesting scene because of the realationship between the King and Hal. It seems rather abruptly that Hal switches sides to fight with his dad. At the beginning of the scene the King is scolding Hal and says:"But thou dost in thy passages of life make me believe that thou art only marked for the hot vengeance and the rod of heaven to punish my mistreadings"(Lines 8-11). After King Henry basically tells Hal that he does not want Hal as a son, Hal obediently answers, "So Please your Majesty..."(Line 18) I thought this was kind of strange that Hal was bowing down to his father all of a sudden, when he was been purposely rebeling against everything the King stands for. What prompted the sudden change in Hal's character? Did he really mature that quickly? Also in this scene, the King talks a lot about how a King should rarely be seen, and should not socialize with the common people so often, and then says to Hal; "Why Harry do I tell thee of my foes, which art my nearest and dearest enemy?(Lines 121-123). Does the King want to break off all ties with his son, or is he truly attempting to mend the break in their relationship? Hal seems to be pleading to earn his respect back from his father, but I'm still wondering what prompted this behavior, since he has been rebelling with the Pub Crawlers thus far.

8:49 PM  
Blogger Megan M said...

Act III, scene 1 lines 198-276

7. Throughout this scene, I think Hotspur is feeling incredibly insecure, both towards Glendower in the first half and Mortimer in the second. He acts rather embarrassed about Kate in comparison to Lady Mortimer, and repeatedly tries to Kate off as competition: "Come, Kate, thou art perfect in lying down:/come, quick, quick, that I may lay my head in thy lap" (lines 222-223) and "Come, Kate, I'll have your song too" (240). Hotspur wants to show the other men that he's just as good as they, in every aspect down to his loving wife. Hotspur is embarrassed to have such a vivacious wife, who is not at his beck and call, and wants to demonstrate his control over her to Glendower and Mortimer. Unfortunately for him, Kate won't have any of that, and the more he tries to coerce her, the more she acts up. Hotspur is desperate to be able to show off his perfect lady; so much so that he tries to make her jealous ("To the Welsh lady's bed"(237)), attempts to flatter her ("Come, Kate, thou art perfect in lying down"(222)), and finally just yells at her for her swearing and stalks off. This exchange with Kate before an audience of Mortimer and Glendower reveals Hotspur's inner insecurity and need to be the best. It may foreshadow a possible reverse of roles between Hal and Hotspur, where Hotspur is suddenly unable to match up.

9:13 PM  
Blogger MeganF said...

Scene 2, #5

I would like to bring up the conflict between King Henry and his son, Hal. This scene gets to the bottom of how the King doesn't appreciate his son and wishes him to be like Hotspur. "As thou art to this hour was Richard then When I from France set foot at Ravenspurgh, And even as I was then is Percy now," (95). I wonder why the King still respects Hotspur when he knows that he is trying to over throw him. Even though Hal places himself in a different "crowd" than the King wishes, he remains loyal to the crown and acts respectively, like when he returned all the stolen money. The King does not see these good qualities in Hal, but searches for qualities in Hotspur. Although Hotspur is committing treason and becoming ruthless, the King still associates his actions with his own, and desires that Hal develop some of these qualities. Do you think this is because of a parallel between King Henry and Hotspur? How they both tried to overthrow a ruler? I find it hard to understand why King Henry doesn't see the good in his own child, because most people only see the good and not the bad in their kids. How does the King expect Hal to love him when he demands him to be something he is not? It seems like a basic struggle that many kids and their parents go through even in this time period. It's a universal idea.

12:19 PM  
Blogger Kell-EH said...

6. I loved the contrast between the relationship of Mortimer and his wife and Hotspur and his. Mortimer and Lady Mortimer don't even speak the same language and still are madly in love. He says, "But I will never be truant, love,/ Till I have learn'd thy language, for thy tongue/ Makes Welsh as sweet as ditties highly penn'd,/ sung by a fair queen in a summer's bow'r,/ with ravishing division, to her lute"(III.1.204-208). Mortimer desperately wants to learn Welch so that he can understand his wife and thus love her more. In sharp contrast, Hotspur speaks crudely to his wife. He says, "Come, Kate, thou art perfect in lying down"(III.1.226-227). He is obviously using a sexual innuendo. He also claims he'll "have her song", line 245, and that he would "rather have his bach [or "Bitch"] howl in Irish" line 235, alluding to a graphic sexual image, than to have Mortimer's wife who sings in Welch. Hotspur is rather disgusting and rude. It is therefore amazing the amount of composure that Lady Percy displays.
I don't like Hotspur. I believe that Shakespeare intended to make him the distasteful foil to Hal in order to exonerate the King Henry V that everyone loved. Even though Hal is a rogue that hangs around with vagabonds, he is still more likable than Hotspur, and is thus set up to shine more brightly once unveiled, as he said in his previous soliloquy.

9:28 PM  
Blogger Sean K said...

response to betsy h:
In this scene, the purpose of the King telling Hal about his foes is not to break or mend their relationship, but to show the honor both Hotspur and Percy exhibit in battle, evident in this phrase, “Turns head against the lion’s armed jaws/ and being no more in debt to years than thou/ Leads ancient lords and reverend bishops on/ To bloody battles,” (lines 102-106). The King does not see these qualities in his son, but views him as someone who would just as easily fight for Percy because he thinks Hal has an unpredictable temper (lines 125-128). Instead, Hal resembles Richard, which is the ultimate insult the King could call his son. This is because they both spent too much time in the public eye, which turns the divine royal court into a common occurrence. To the King, this is a disgrace and is why he overthrew King Richard (lines 69-77). The result of this insult does mend their relationship because Hal now wants to fight for his father to become his son again (lines 130-136).

12:41 PM  
Blogger Aly A. said...

5. I did not like Hotspur in this scene. Every time we read about him, I wonder more and more why King Henry wants him as a son and not Hal. I think Hal is a much better man than Hotspur. Even though Hal doesn't associate with respectable people, he has values and is loyal to his friends. On the contrary, Hotspur only associates with powerful nobles and is ego is still too big for them and he dislikes most of them. I liked when Worcester finally criticized Hotspur for being so rude to Glendower, saying that his stubbornness and rude comments could be a sign of "Defect of manners, want of government/ Pride, haughtiness, opinion, and disdain/ The least of which, haunting a nobleman/ Loseth men's hearts and leaves behind a stain/ Upon the beauty of all parts besides/ Beguiling them of commendation" (lines 129-184). Hotspur was trying to prove to these men that he was just as great as them by disagreeing with practically everything they said, but instead he proved that he was proud, haughty, and impolite.

He doesn't redeem himself later either when he shows so much disrespect for Kate. On one side there is Mortimer who is saying that he will try his hardest to learn Welsh so that he can communicate with his dearly beloved wife, and on the other there is Hotspur who is mocking Kate, demanding her to sing or he'll go "to the Welsh lady's bed."

Even though Hotspur's actions are great in battle, his personality and ego makes him a rude, proud man that I personally do not like.

11:08 PM  
Blogger Molly M said...

Act 3 End of Scene 1 and Scene 2:

In response to Betsy:

I want to start out by saying that I agree with Jesse about this being the turning point in the play. Here is where the change is going to begin. Betsy, I think you are correct in saying that Hal has been intentionally defying the kingly image or role that he is supposed to be filling. However, earlier in the play in one of his speeches, lines 184-206, he explains why he is acting so rebellious. It is so that his "reformation, glitt'ring o'er my fault, shall show more goodly and attract more eyes than that which hath no foil to set it off" (lines 202-204). He was behaving opposite of what he should have been so that now when he makes his turn around it looks even better to the public. Now when he is talking to his father he is telling him that he will make that turn around and it is going to start then. I think that his change in behavior is prompted by his realization that the time for him to redeem himself has come. He has upset his father, and obviously the public because they are the people telling his father what he is taking part in, enough and must now take on his responsibilities. I also think that he knows that it may become more difficult to redeem himself if he upsets his father any more. He recognizes that the battlefield is a perfect starting place for his comeback. It will be an easy situation for him to be put into a heroic light.

5:26 PM  
Blogger Kylee L said...

Response to Emma V: I enjoyed reading about the conversation between King Henry and Hal. I agree that their relationship is nothing like a father and a son would normally have. I think that Hal was interested in “emerging from his fathers shadow,” but I also think that Hal was interested in becoming king. Hal’s plan to redeem himself was by becoming king. This way he will redeem himself in his fathers’ eyes as well as the eyes of the people.

5:43 PM  
Blogger Dana A said...

In response to Aly's comment:
I agree with your comment about Hotspur and those are my feelings exactly. It seems that those surrounding Hotspur are finally beginning to see through his egotisitcal phasod to the real cowardly man beneath. Glendower seems to be pointing out some of his main faults and hopefully others will soon begin to see them as well. I agree that Hospur does not treat his wife and his elders with respect and if he can not respect the people around him than how is he going to respect the wishes of an entire country? I think that this scene in particular may forshadow that Hotspur is destined to fail in his mission to become king because he is only focused on the good of one person: himself. Others will see right through him and his selfishness and no one wants a selfish, egotistical king running their country.

7:50 PM  
Blogger Jimmy N. said...

Scene ii, #4

I thought it was very interesting how King Henry considers himself such an outstanding person, despite his dubious past. Taking into consideration how the king obtained his royal status in the first place, one is certainly forced to question the King's intentions, whether they be genuine or not. The king claims how he maintained his public relations as a genuine king, "Thus did I keep my presence new/ My presence, like a robe pontifical/ Ne'er seen but wondered at. And so my state/ Seldom but sumptious, showed like a feast/ And won by rareness such solemnity." The king wants Hal to uphold the same stately manner he upheld, prior to his illegal occupation of the throne. I think the king is being very hipocritical is his requests of Hal. The king claims Hal is not being princely enough for the court and wishes for Hal to repent for his carefree lifestyle, when in reality, the king is the one who should be repenting for his unruly occupation of the throne. The king even goes as far as to compare himself with Pope, how he was seen just enough to be wondered about. What are the kings true motives for trying to mold Hal, is he really trying to make a noble leader out of him, or merely schooling him in the ways of the immoral monarchy?

7:50 PM  
Blogger Sarah E. said...

6. I also found the latest exchange between Hotspur and Kate very interesting. In their previous discussions, Hotspur seems to circumvent Kate’s questions regarding his motives, often using references to his horses. However, in this scene Kate and Hotspur’s relationship is illustrated using quick and direct wit. Although Hotspur once again exhibits his clear disregard for women, Shakespeare obviously disagreed with Hotspur’s conclusions regarding the female sex. In this scene Shakespeare clearly distinguishes Kate’s intelligence as equal to her husbands. For example, Hotspur states, “Now I perceive the devil understands Welsh, And ‘tis no marvel he is so humorous. By ‘r Lady, he is a good musician.” Kate responds, “Then should you be nothing but musical for you are altogether governed by humors. Lie still, you thief, and hear the lady sing in Welsh.” Hotspur replies, “I had rather hear Lady, my brach, howl in Irish.” And Kate wittingly puts, “Wouldst thou have thy head broken?” only to stump Hotspur with a single, “No.” This passage illustrates Kate’s influence over her husband. She is unwilling to back down from his self appointed supremacy and thus distinguishes her importance using her quick wit. I also thought that there was significance in Kate’s name calling, particularly when she refers to Hotspur as a “thief”. It seems ironic because many characters including the Prince are truly thieves while Hotspur is in truth a noble character. Could this possibly be in reference to Kate feeling as if Hotspur has stolen her heart and chosen to ignore her and her love? It may be far reaching but I am curious to hear what the class thinks.

8:29 PM  
Blogger ChristyH said...

Response to Betsy:
Betsy, you make some very good observations and ask a lot of the same questions I had myself as I was reading this scene. I think your comment about Hal suddenly bowing down to his father after rebelling him for so long could possibly reveal his insecurities. He might have the guts to rebel against him when he is around his friends, but when he actually comes face to face with his father, he is overcome by his father's great power. Also, I think Hal was simply waiting for a hint from his father for him to show his maturity. I think it might have been hard for Hal to decide when he would step up into his role, so he was just waiting for his father to give him the perfect opportunity by saying he has no respect for his son. So, in answer to your question about Hal maturing so quickly, I think he had it in him all along, as he said in his soliloquy, but he just needed the right moment to prove himself to the king.
As for your question about the King wanting to break off all his ties with his son, I don't think that is what he wants. King Henry is very nervous about what is to become of his throne because of his son's actions, but I don't think he wants to end his relationship. By threatening Hal, Henry is probably searching for that step up Hal must take to regain his father's respect. Likewise, Hal now has his moment to show the world who he really is, a King.

8:42 PM  
Blogger Maya R said...

Response to Megan F
I also find it interesting that the king still respects Hotspur when he knows that Hotspur is trying to overthrow him. It is possible that King Henry admires that Hotspur is courageous and well known and bold and brave, whereas, Hal is anything but those characteristics. I think King Henry just wants Hal to make a good name for himself and carry on Henry's legacy. King Henry is tired of Hal drinking and partying while Hotspur is becoming popular with the rebels. Even though Hotspur is rebelious, at least he is fighting for a cause and making a name for himself. I think King Henry admires Hotspur for this, even though he does not want to deal with rebels. Henry uses Hotspur's actions to spur Hal to action; he plays off of Hotspur to develop Hal into a noble and worthy heir to the throne.

8:55 PM  
Blogger Stacie C said...

In response to Kelly,
-- You made a really interesting comparison between Hotspur and Lady Percy's relationship versus that of Lord and Lady Mortimer. While I agree in some aspects with your idea that Mortimer is completely in love with his wife despite their language barrier, I also saw it as a herald to the societal values during Shakespeare's life. Marriage wasn't so much about love as a political alliance, and Mortimer is a perfect example-- the ousted heir to the English throne marries a nobleman's daughter. And Glendower may be able to raise enough support, along with the help of Mortimer and Hotspur, to return him to the throne. Furthermore, how would Mortimer fall in love with his wife without speaking the same language (practically speaking)? Does this suggest an undying love despite the constraints of modern language, or does it imply that Mortimer is more interested in his societal position as king than relationships?

9:14 PM  
Blogger Amy J said...

In response to Betsy:
I agree that Hal's actions can seem contradictory and confusing, but he seems to have good reason for them. He may not have initially spent time with the pubcrawlers in order to look good when he turns he life around, but he obviously has a plan in mind for the future. Even in Act I Scene ii he has a soliloquy in which he convinces himself that he is behaving badly for good reason. He wants to win over the people's respect, and he thinks that that will be easier if they have low expectations. So although Hal's character seems to change abruptly, he has really been hiding the well-behaved version of himself all along. Now that his father is chastising him, however, he cannot hide his intentions from his father any longer. He does not want to be punished or looked down upon for actions he is not performing whole-heartedly, even though they should put him on the same level as Falstaff and the rest of the pubcrawlers.

10:11 PM  
Blogger barbarab88 said...

In response to Jesse!:

I agree with your second comment. Hal makes a very arrousing and motivational speach. He refrences "reformation" a lot, such as "redeem all this on Percy's head" and "washed away, shall scour my shame with it". These show Hal making himself a new person and performing a complete 180 on himself. He also talks of taking Hotspur's place as the favorite, mentioning "The which if He be pleased I shall perform". I do think it is interesting that Hal uses "I will" as his tense. He uses this speach to say "I will do this", not "I am doing this". This causes me to wonder if Hal ever really will do this or if he is just saying this so his father will trust him.

10:24 PM  

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